Help With an Article - The Football Pink

[Deleted]

Hi all

Firstly, a confession. I'm not an Albion Rovers fan, I'm a long-suffering Evertonian.

I've been tasked with writing a piece on Scottish football for The Football Pink website/fanzine (www.footballpink.net).

It's subject: Scottish clubs surviving in a landscape dominated by Rangers and Celtic. It's focus is on ways clubs like Albion Rovers attract fans, keep them coming back and the everyday challenges faced in order to keep clubs running.



I'd love to get a fan perspective on behalf of Albion Rovers; would anyone mind taking a bit of time to answer some questions? Even if you can only manage one question, I'd be overwhelmed and indebted to you. It would really help in me getting an insight into the club, and I'm keen to learn more about Rovers


1. I understand Albion Rovers introduced a pay-what-you-can season ticket for 14/15. Was the initiative a success? Did it raise attendances? Do you think it to be a sustainable model for clubs? Why was it not carried on into the 15/16 season?


2. Do you feel the club could/should be doing more to attract fans, increase gates and make the match going experience more cost-effective? If so, what would you suggest?


3. Do match going Albion Rovers fans feel like you get good value for money anyway?

4. I know fans don't choose their clubs (at least they shouldn't!) but do you think it's better to support a club playing outside of the elite/top leagues? Do you think there's something in the common notion that smaller clubs are "proper" clubs, closer to it's communities?

5. What is it that keeps you coming back again and again to watch Albion Rovers?


Thanks in advance.

Joe Carroll

[chris]

I understand Albion Rovers introduced a pay-what-you-can season ticket for 14/15. Was the initiative a success? Did it raise attendances? Do you think it to be a sustainable model for clubs? Why was it not carried on into the 15/16 season?

I think it was a success in terms of getting people talking about the club. All anyone spoke about was how good it was for a small club to try things like that and seemed to get attendances up that year.

Overall the scheme was described as an unmitigated disaster in financial terms and the club couldn't afford to do it again so when the prices went back to normal so did the crowds.

Personally I think it was a good idea, fair play to trying it but it didn't really work.

2. Do you feel the club could/should be doing more to attract fans, increase gates and make the match going experience more cost-effective? If so, what would you suggest?

The club try so hard it is unbelievable and if more people gave the club a chance and came to a game or 2 they might find they enjoy it.

I hate getting into a taxi and the driver telling me he likes the club and always looks out for the results, that's all very good mate but not really doing anything to help them is it

I feel kids at schools in coatbridge seem to get brainwashed into supporting the old firm clubs by friends or family.

3. Do match going Albion Rovers fans feel like you get good value for money anyway?

That's hard to answer, it's my club I love so would pay anything to go watch them. As much as I moan about the cost of everything football related I would probably still pay double the next week to get in.

4. I know fans don't choose their clubs (at least they shouldn't!) but do you think it's better to support a club playing outside of the elite/top leagues? Do you think there's something in the common notion that smaller clubs are "proper" clubs, closer to it's communities?

Without a doubt.

The club get into all the local schools help with all the local charities and try to get involved in the things in the town.

I'm quite patriotic too so love everything about the town I grew up in and supporting get the local team comes naturally

I think with the big clubs you seem to just follow a crowd


5. What is it that keeps you coming back again and again to watch Albion Rovers?

I ask myself this every season and always come up with the same answer, not got a clue.

I put myself through stress heartache pain. Spend money that I could use for other things. Travel thousands of miles to watch rubbish.

But at the end of the day I love it. It's like a drug that your hooked on. It's not always the match ... it's the build up, the boys days out, traveling the country and meeting new and somtimes weird people

At the end of the day I just love it

[Deleted]

Aug 22, 2016 21:18:05 GMT chris said:

I understand Albion Rovers introduced a pay-what-you-can season ticket for 14/15. Was the initiative a success? Did it raise attendances? Do you think it to be a sustainable model for clubs? Why was it not carried on into the 15/16 season?

I think it was a success in terms of getting people talking about the club. All anyone spoke about was how good it was for a small club to try things like that and seemed to get attendances up that year.

Overall the scheme was described as an unmitigated disaster in financial terms and the club couldn't afford to do it again so when the prices went back to normal so did the crowds.

Personally I think it was a good idea, fair play to trying it but it didn't really work.

2. Do you feel the club could/should be doing more to attract fans, increase gates and make the match going experience more cost-effective? If so, what would you suggest?

The club try so hard it is unbelievable and if more people gave the club a chance and came to a game or 2 they might find they enjoy it.

I hate getting into a taxi and the driver telling me he likes the club and always looks out for the results, that's all very good mate but not really doing anything to help them is it

I feel kids at schools in coatbridge seem to get brainwashed into supporting the old firm clubs by friends or family.

3. Do match going Albion Rovers fans feel like you get good value for money anyway?

That's hard to answer, it's my club I love so would pay anything to go watch them. As much as I moan about the cost of everything football related I would probably still pay double the next week to get in.

4. I know fans don't choose their clubs (at least they shouldn't!) but do you think it's better to support a club playing outside of the elite/top leagues? Do you think there's something in the common notion that smaller clubs are "proper" clubs, closer to it's communities?

Without a doubt.

The club get into all the local schools help with all the local charities and try to get involved in the things in the town.

I'm quite patriotic too so love everything about the town I grew up in and supporting get the local team comes naturally

I think with the big clubs you seem to just follow a crowd


5. What is it that keeps you coming back again and again to watch Albion Rovers?

I ask myself this every season and always come up with the same answer, not got a clue.

I put myself through stress heartache pain. Spend money that I could use for other things. Travel thousands of miles to watch rubbish.

But at the end of the day I love it. It's like a drug that your hooked on. It's not always the match ... it's the build up, the boys days out, traveling the country and meeting new and somtimes weird people

At the end of the day I just love it

excellent and fair comments Chris

[d7]

Yep, good comments from Chris. I've only been a fan for a couple of years and it was the pay what you can season ticket that got me involved with the Rovers. I'm still a season ticket holder and my son is too so that's 2 people who have stuck with it; I dare say there are others. Not really sure why we stuck with it other than we enjoy it. I wouldn't travel to the ends of the earth to see the Rovers (or even to places like Peterhead for that matter), but I will go to the local away games against Queens Park and the like. I take my hat off to Chris for his dedication.

I used to watch one of the 'big 2' regularly although I wasn't a season ticket holder. The football in SPFL2 and now SPFL1 is far more competitive than anything I saw in the Premier league. Also the quality isn't that much different outside of the top 4 or 5 clubs.

[teekasule]

Hi

I have the report of the chairman at the time re the season ticket scheme - I'll send it when I get home tonight - PM me your email address.

will answer the questions also.

thanks

Stephen

[jmce]

1. I understand Albion Rovers introduced a pay-what-you-can season ticket for 14/15. Was the initiative a success? Did it raise attendances? Do you think it to be a sustainable model for clubs? Why was it not carried on into the 15/16 season?

This is a bit long winded, but it’s a great question you ask and hopefully I can add a wee bit of context to some of the great responses Chris and some of the others have already given.

It was a success in the short term for the 14/15 season in that it generated a huge amount of publicity for the club and increased crowds substantially throughout that season – a season in which we went on to win the league.
I think we sold around 650 season tickets that year – the average before that was probably just over 100 odd.
Average gates varying from 350 to 500 before the venture and regularly well in excess of 500 during the 14/15 season.

The idea was we would be able to take a short term ‘hit’ in finances, as we could afford to do at that time due to a fantastic run to the quarter finals of the Scottish Cup the season before. The income generated from that was effectively used to pay off the existing debts and underwrite this venture. And from those increased crowds you would see a longer term return in new fans.
However, for one reason or another, despite winning the league in great style, a longer term upturn in crowds hasn’t really materialised with the start of this season seeing attendances actually fall. We all find that hard to understand as the team have been performing excellently over the past few years.

One of the problems with the scheme I think was that the minimum price was set too low. It was £10 for the season.
It probably could have been at £20, (or even £15) to negate the impact of switched on away fans effectively getting a free game.
We play each other 4 times up here. ( 2 home , 2 away) It was £10 walk up entry per game at the time.
A higher minimum price probably wouldn’t have put off too many of the 650 who took it up.
Also, some regular season ticket holders took advantage as well and paid below the normal price and while you can’t blame them for that the club was expecting the regular fans who could to pay the full, or at least close to the full price.

In terms of carrying it fwd, there were a few changes in the boardroom and the new BOD were not happy with it and as Chris says they described it as a disaster which I thought was a bit harsh and didn't take into the accounts the positives which could have been used to provide a base to produce a long term plan from which to budget and plan cashflow accordingly. But that doesn't take into account the full position they inherited.
In my opinion though, dismissing it with such negativity sent out the wrong message.

Sustainability - I believe the core number of season ticket holders has actually increased slightly from what it was before the scheme - But overall home fans attendances have been very disappointing. And as said above this season attendances have been particularly low.
So while it most certainly wasn’t sustainable in the form it was I do wonder if a planned graded model with incremental increases year on year could have helped hold on to some of the £10 fans a bit longer.
Perhaps not and to administer such a scheme would be virtually impossible for a club our size.

Another stat that would be interesting to see at the end of this season is total gate income including season tickets for season 14/15 against 16/17.

2. Do you feel the club could/should be doing more to attract fans, increase gates and make the match going experience more cost-effective? If so, what would you suggest?

I think Chris has summed it up. The club work incredibly hard to get folk along with not a lot of return I’m afraid.
I always thought get a winning team and the Coatbridge public will come along and watch the ‘team they always look out for’.
How wrong I was!

3. Do match going Albion Rovers fans feel like you get good value for money anyway?


I do - and fall into the same mindset as Chris, but I appreciate it is a hard one to call.

We currently charge £14 on the gate, plus £2 for kids, which does seem a lot but it is on a par with the rest of the division just about – with a few charging more.
Lowering on the day gate prices by a pound or two effectively makes no difference to your overall numbers so you are cutting your income even more.
Perhaps some ‘special offers’ could be tried.
But then you get some season ticket holders moaning that they are losing value
– although most appreciate that it would be for the good of the club.

4. I know fans don't choose their clubs (at least they shouldn't!) but do you think it's better to support a club playing outside of the elite/top leagues? Do you think there's something in the common notion that smaller clubs are "proper" clubs, closer to its communities?

Again Chris – nails this in his answer. Although I find myself despairing more and more that a large part of the West of Scotland, including Coatbridge, seems to define who it supports by what school you went to rather than their hometown. That was always the way but it seems even more the case these days – social media I guess.
I also find myself having less and less interest in the higher leagues.
Mark E Smith had a great quote along the lines of no longer being willing to pay to watch multi millionaires roll around on the ground crying. I think that summed it up quite well.
With the Rovers there is a real connection, we are all a large part of the club. More so than what most big club fans will ever be.

5. What is it that keeps you coming back again and again to watch Albion Rovers?

It’s our team.
It’s the game itself - the going to the match at 3 o’clock on a Saturday and while I want us to continue the great success we have had recently, when it comes down to it - it doesn’t matter - other than an obvious financial impact.
In terms of the match day there’s virtually no difference to me in whether it’s Stenhousemuir or Forfar or Arbroath or Brechin or Alloa or Dumbarton etc etc – it’s the game itself.

Rovers v Anybody.

[ped]

1. I understand Albion Rovers introduced a pay-what-you-can season ticket for 14/15. Was the initiative a success? Did it raise attendances? Do you think it to be a sustainable model for clubs? Why was it not carried on into the 15/16 season?

Think this has all been covered before but I'm one of the people who are here because of the scheme. I grew up a Celtic fan but could count on both hands the number of games I actually attended. I'd always looked out for the Rovers results and had always said I'd go to a game one day. Finally checked the website for ticket prices and it was the day after the pay what you can was introduced so I had no excuses (I also paid more than the minimum). I've enjoyed going ever since and have also been to a few away games.

2. Do you feel the club could/should be doing more to attract fans, increase gates and make the match going experience more cost-effective? If so, what would you suggest?

I think this is probably the biggest problem facing the club. Coatbridge is historically Old Firm country when it should be Rovers' town. The club are trying their best to change it but it's going to take a monumental effort to make any headway. I hope they keep at it though and try more initiatives to get people through the gate. I'd especially like to see them target school kids in the surrounding area, free season tickets with a paying adult, or something like that. Try to get them hooked, especially when the team's doing well.

3. Do match going Albion Rovers fans feel like you get good value for money anyway?

Definitely. If it was overpriced I would've been put off from the start, or when the full prices kicked in after pay what you can was up.

4. I know fans don't choose their clubs (at least they shouldn't!) but do you think it's better to support a club playing outside of the elite/top leagues? Do you think there's something in the common notion that smaller clubs are "proper" clubs, closer to it's communities?

I choose mine recently! I do agree that I see football outside outside of the top league as "proper football". There are no millionaire prima donnas, just ordinary guys going out and giving their best. I don't think it's better to support a team outside the top tier, but I do think it's better to support a local community club which the Rovers are.

5. What is it that keeps you coming back again and again to watch Albion Rovers?

I love the whole match day experience, from getting the train through Airdrie in full Rovers colours, the walk along Main st, the obligatory program and £1 Bovril. Being close to the action and feeling like part of the club. I've also been to places like Arbroath & Berwick that I'd never had visited without watching the Rovers. Then you go up to buy your season ticket and spend half an hour talking to Ronnie about the club. Just a few reasons why I've stuck around.

P.S I couldn't tell you the starting line up for Celtic now!

Read more: arfc.proboards.com/thread/227/help-article-football-pink#ixzz4IETfpabJ

[Deleted]

Thank you all so much for your responses. I'm extremely grateful for your time and I'll be going over all the responses thoroughly. I've only had time to glance through so far but they look to have given me some great insight from the fans. Thank you!

[Deleted]

chris thanks for your brilliant responses. I have to commend clubs for trying schemes like this, as many clearly don't bother or are simply unwilling. If the club is working hard under difficult circumstances, would you say there's an onus on members of the community to support their local team more? Easier said than done, I know. People are attracted to elite level football and shouldn't necessarily be admonished for supporting whoever it is they wish to support.

In general, I'm getting the sense from all the responses that the scheme was a good idea, but ultimately was unsustainable. But has potentially opened the door for a new generation of fans, which I guess was probably one of the intention outcomes?


d7 thanks for replying. It's great to hear that you're still a season ticket holder - I guess you're a success story of the scheme and an example of the kind of fan(s) the club had in mind for this scheme. Interesting to read your comments about the competitiveness being more so in the lower leagues. Is that to say the teams in L1 and L2 are of similar quality/ability? And when you say "quality isn't that much different outside of the top 4 or 5 clubs" do you mean, the top 4 or 5 clubs in the SPL/whole Scottish football hierarchy? So Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen, Hearts, etc?


jmce excellent response, thanks for going into so much detail. Interesting to read your comments in light of the fact that the club won the league during the 14/15 season. You assume winning games and trophies would be enough to convert fans and/or keep them coming back. Usually cup/league success is followed by an upturn in attendances, but I guess you already had unusually good attendances that season due to the scheme, and of course it couldn't be sustained forever. Is success on the pitch therefore not the overwhelming factor to the club maintaining and improving off it (financially, attendances), in your opinion?

Your answer to Q5 is a familiar one, not just among the other responses but it's probably the same answer I'd give to the same question about Everton. And i think it would be an answer given by most fans up and down UK, regardless of the league/level. It's about the day itself, regardless of the result in the end or who you're playing, the excitement pre-game is always there and you revel in the matchday rituals. I get the feeling this is a common experience felt by majority of fans which is encouraging (for me anyway) in a climate of global football branding and corporate meddling.


ped thanks so much for taking the time to respond. It's really interesting that you were a self-confessed Celtic fan "converted" to Rovers (is that fair to say?). Do you see yourself as a Rovers fan first and Celtic second? Or is it more fluid than that? Again, I guess you can say you're on of the success stories having been drawn in by the scheme and found yourself still going after it finished.

I agree, I think schools and youth initiatives could be the best way to "hook" fans early doors and try and keep them coming back (attaching nostalgia to going the game could prove significant). Your suggestion is a good one re: the free kids ticket with a paying adult, but again I suppose it comes down to it also being financially viable for the club.


Do you think there's a sense that fans who follow lower league clubs are "closer" to the players they watch? They live near them, work near them, possibly see them around town and say hello. Whereas in the PL and top Euro leagues, theres a huge disconnect between the common match-going fan and the multimillionaires that elite footballers have become. I can see where Rovers fans get more enjoyment from watching their players.

So has your affiliation with Celtic pretty much come to an end? You don't follow them anymore?

[Deleted]

Also, does anyone have any sources/websites for attendances at Cliftonhill? I've had some trouble finding the numbers for recent seasons. Thanks

[teekasule]

Joe - Ive emailed you the two reports. Others can see them here


albionroversfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Albion-Rovers-FC-Season-Ticket-Report.pdf

albionroversfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Albion-Rovers-Football-Club.docx

as for attendances there used to be a superb site that had all the stats - cant find it now. 

Edit to add this - not sure how accurate it is tho.
www.fitbastats.com/albionrovers/club_records_league_attendance.php


Found this recent survey...

www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/ScottishFA/Survey/survey%20pdf.pdf

cheers

Tee. 

[Deleted]

Thanks Tee. Much appreciated.

Anyone know the capacity for Cliftonhill? Seeing conflicting numbers online, one site below saying 2496. Wikipedia (I know, not to be trusted) saying 1572

www.footballgroundmap.com/ground/the-cliftonhill-stadium/albion-rovers

Cheers

[Roy of the Rovers]

I had a figure of 1550 in my mind.

[chris]

I would think there was an onus on the local people

But people are sheep and People love a winner haha

[Nanook]

The number 1247 sticks in my mind as the attendance a few years ago which led to us getting the record low all ticket attendance.